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2 CFE's in one day

Home Forums CFE Topics 2 CFE's in one day

This topic contains 20 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  jonyoon 4 years, 10 months ago.

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  • #2439

    rogueturnip
    Member

    I was just curious, with standard Triathlon training it’s normal to do 2 different sport training activities in one day. Is this frowned upon in CFE? I’m also making the assumption that it’s a CF rest day.

    #2440

    Kaitlin
    Member

    Following this program you do have 2 different sports in one day with the Anaerobic S&C or CF mainsite or CF affiliate programming wod and your CFE wod. S&C is the base of the program so you are working with 4 sports S&C wods, swim, bike, run. So doing 4-6 S & C days with the 2 sport specific wods per sport per week pretty much covers all the bases.

    #2441

    rogueturnip
    Member

    That makes sense but I guess what I was wondering is if on a CF WOD rest day would it be ok to do the CFE WOD for Bike in the morning and then CFE WOD for Run in the evening?

    #2442

    Kaitlin
    Member

    If you wanted to do a brick workout it would replace a tempo/TT workout so it would occur on a Anaerobic S&C/CF off day. If you wanted the sport specific element for a run through of sport specific transitions you could work in maybe 2-3 in a 12 week period. Your body is exposed to transition elements all the time on the S&C side of things when there are couplets and triplets moving from different modalities. Time your transitions when doing brick workouts. Transitions are another skill in the sport of triathlons.

    #2448

    rusticles
    Member

    Here’s the short answer: NO!

    Pick 2 sports per week.

    Do each of the chosen sports twice in that week. One tempo and one interval for each. Alternate then on SEPARATE DAYS. Total of 4 CFE Wods per week.

    Vary the sports on the following week. Repeat for several weeks. Enjoy the outcome.

    #2460

    rogueturnip
    Member

    That is clear.

    I’ve gone over the CF Template for program development but there isn’t a document for CFE that gives an example 3 week workout cycle and that was probably what I was missing, just seeing how a single sport or triathlete would program.

    It is counterintuitive to other triathlon training programs to not do all 3 sports in the week and the 2 sports (plus CF) method didn’t seem clear to me.

    Thanks a lot!

    Tony

    #2464

    Kaitlin
    Member

    Tony–
    Programming is addressed in the Endurance Certification. Send me a pm with your email and questions and I can help answer your questions specifically and some of the why behind the reasoning and programming.

    #2472

    jonyoon
    Member

    "Kaitlin" wrote: Tony–
    Programming is addressed in the Endurance Certification. Send me a pm with your email and questions and I can help answer your questions specifically and some of the why behind the reasoning and programming.

    Why the need to keep the answer on the reasoning and programming private? Or is this no longer an open-source program?

    #2473

    Kaitlin
    Member

    It is all on the comments within different days of the last 2 years and is part of the Endurance Certification. It is an open source and always has been. It is easier to answer someone’s specific questions to what they are doing/their goals on email as I’m not always able to pull this up, and there is a point where more is involved and goes beyond simply answering a couple general questions. If I want to help someone with a couple questions on things I do not need to explain that to anyone, and I have answered anyone’s questions that has contacted me with a specific question about something. I have never kept anything "private" as you are saying.

    #2475

    jonyoon
    Member

    "Kaitlin" wrote: It is all on the comments within different days of the last 2 years and is part of the Endurance Certification. It is an open source and always has been. It is easier to answer someone’s specific questions to what they are doing/their goals on email as I’m not always able to pull this up, and there is a point where more is involved and goes beyond simply answering a couple general questions. If I want to help someone with a couple questions on things I do not need to explain that to anyone, and I have answered anyone’s questions that has contacted me with a specific question about something. I have never kept anything "private" as you are saying.

    I’m sorry if you’ve taking offense to this, but the question is not meant to be personal – only information seeking.

    The comment from Tony was something very specific, dealing with the CF Template for program development and the lack of documentation for CFE that gives an example 3 week workout cycle & the 2 sports + CF method not being clear. I’m sure that this isn’t an uncommon thought about the program for anyone interesting in knowing more about CFE. I’ve read past comments on the WODs listed before (not an efficient or organized way for CFE to present information, since information gets lost easily with each new WOD that appears) and I don’t ever recall these topics ever remotely touched outside of Carl’s comment of "Go to a cert! We teach you this!"

    So if you do have the answer, I think it would be better to post it publicly for everyone to see. Plus, the search function that is built into the forum is much more effective than trying to re-comb through two years worth of CFE WOD comments to search for an answer that may not be there, so anyone who’s interested can help themselves.

    #2476

    Kaitlin
    Member

    There are several things posted on the site about planning/scheduling your week. They are not super specific because there are many aspects that go into programming and the answer is not always the same for the various sports that are programmed on the site which is why it may not be as specific as you are looking for.
    From the FAQ section:
    "First, have a plan. Second, know before you go! If you are following the WOD from the main Cross Fit site and CrossFit Endurance, it would be best to stay a day or two behind. Know the days you will be resting or have the ability to do tempo/time trial work. If CrossFit has a really tough WOD and you are going to be ruined the next day it would be a good idea to completely rest or do something easy. If you need to do tempo/time trial stuff on the weekends plan accordingly… Write out your week and have the ability to make minor changes if needed."
    comment from 5/9/08
    "The best results come from those who are following main site WOD and following this site. Single sports (i.e., Running, Cycling) only supplement 3 WOD’s from CFE a week, preferably 2 interval based WOD’s and one Tempo. Triathletes/Multisport, Supplement 2 WOD’s from this site per sport per week MAX. Interval and tempo or 2 intervals… Never 2 tempo from same sport. When your event approaches taper 1.5 – 1 week out, cut CrossFit 4 day’s out form event and do short (<15 min interval sessions)." taper post also on 11/1
    There are other ones as well and some have been reposted on other days or on the forum. There are many different things which can impact programming. Learning more about programming and how to make your schedule is covered during the cert. Attend a cert and there is nothing wrong with saying attend a cert we teach you all of this. You should not take offense to that comment. There is a time investment in learning about any type of program.

    #2477

    jonyoon
    Member

    I’ve never taken offense to the answer of "go to a cert" or indicated otherwise. There does appear to be a disconnect to what is taught at a cert versus what is seen on this site and the small handfuls of information on the CF Journal. So we’re clear, I’m not talking about the hands-on application of being coached through the running technique. I’m talking about the actual knowledge content being presented.

    I know that this entire program is supposed to be more than:

    Technique - POSE for running (still not sure what type of techniques are taught for swim and bike if someone is interested in Triathlon, although I’d make personal recommendation of Total Immersion for the swim and for the bike to read the Cyclists Training Bible by Joe Friel or to just hang out with a few hardcore cyclists to pick up technique like pedal stroke and shifting properly.)

    Nutrition - Paleo for Athletes recommended. Zone blocks are okay if you’re into that thing. (Not sure how much on-the-race course nutrition is covered or on hydration/electrolyte balance since that seems to be a common question on the boards and reading a good number of race reports of others who are training using CFE seem to not do so well with on race day.)

    Foundation - CF for the base or the S&C WODs that have come on the scene more recently. (Someone mentioned doing Ross Enamait’s stuff as their base and some people have their own Strength & Conditioning work that is well beyond CF [e.g. Shane Skowron's or Mark Matyazi's training]. A good amount of debate still goes on with regard to the CFE practitioner needing to have a past aerobic base before getting into CFE in order for the training to work.)

    Method - Intervals and Time Trial/Stamina/Tempo runs. Typical setup is two intervals and one time trial or one interval and one tempo run. CFE workouts are anywhere from 2-3 times a week (4-6 for the CF/S&C Base) depending on other variables (e.g. where the schedule falls if doing the 3 on/1 off scheduling). Interval runs are done by time (e.g. 1 min on, 1 min off) or by distance (8x200m). Common interval runs that come up consistently are Tabata runs, Tosh, and Death by 10 meters. Time Trials are done by time (e.g. 30 min all out effort) or distance (13.1 mile run). Distances vary depending on goals. Max distance seen is 13.1 miles for ultra-distance training.

    Work Days – CF & S&C WODs run on a semi-overlapping schedule from the CFE WODs where if anyone is following both CFHQ site or Anaerobic S&C WOD and the CFE WOD, there’s always some workout to be done unless you opt to take the rest day.

    So what did I miss?

    #2478

    Kaitlin
    Member

    Some of the differences that may appear between what is on the site and what is talked about at a cert is from the bottom line of the site is programmed for the masses, and not for a particular race, distance, or type of athlete. At the cert there is some time spent on looking at programming for different types of athletes, runner, triathlete etc. based on who the attendees are and what type of athlete they would like to see a more specific/sample week for. The group is asked and depending on the answer of the group the lecture can then go in a couple different directions based on the answer. Other topics to do with programming are brought up by the questions that attendees have.
    More information on all the things that you site are things that have been put together for the CrossFit Endurance Teams. This is a program that has been being worked on for some time and is now ready to be launched which it has been. It wasn’t something that would come together quickly or didn’t require further work to be completed.
    Nutrition can become a pretty individual type of thing. There is no set of things that if you do a, b, and c you will not have a problem with hydration/nutrition for a race. It is something each athlete must experiment with and see what works best for them, and can change based on the demands of the race, weather and other race day conditions. There are wods where nutrition can be incorporated if the athlete chooses to do so. Again there are many influencing factors to race nutrition and it is the athlete’s responsibility to research, read, experiment during wods etc to see what works best for them as fuel at during different types of races, or stages within a race.
    The S&C wods are programmed with the CFE wods. Rest, nutrition, technique etc.are all areas where alot is dependent on the individual athlete, energy levels, their experiences, goals. These are all places where someone may choose to work with a coach to learn more about and to have more resources on the areas they would like more information or something more personalized to their needs and goals.

    #2479

    rogueturnip
    Member

    Wow, can of worms I opened here :)

    I totally understand the "mass vs individual" comment. You can’t present all the information possible for every individuals sporting goals (and one would never expect that to be given away for free if you have a training service or certification being offered). However, that being said it would be tremendously useful if there was a sample for a few common sports (running, triathlon, and maybe cycling specific).

    All I mean by this is something similar to the CF Template that shows how a program would be develop on a 3 day cycle or 5 day cycle and how the modalities all fit into it. Over time by reading the site I’m sure I’ll have things pieced together but it would be nice to see the CF Template taken as a base and the CFE layered into it. It would be a nice tool that could be referred to as people are designing their workouts.

    I try to follow the WOD as I can but sometimes just based on where I’m working that day or what else is happening I substitute and having a Template type document is very useful for that.

    Just also want to say that I know nothing written would ever replace the benefits achieved by attending an actual certification and being able to interact with an expert.

    #2480

    I agree that it would be useful and interesting to see some ways of how you can develop a program around CFE. However, since more or less everybody have their own specific needs, possibilities, goals, etc, it would probably only suit as a generic guideline.

    There is a thread in the forum where different athletes tell their way to do it:

    viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4&p=6&hilit=skin#p6

    Maybe you can find something useful in that thread?

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